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full_simplify produces unexpected result

asked 2015-02-18 10:12:25 -0500

kartheek gravatar image

updated 2015-02-18 11:23:48 -0500

I applied full_simplify to an expression obtained by substituting a quotient of two polynomials in a polynomial expression, as illustrated below.

The highest degree in the result was expected to be 8, but I get an output where the highest degree is 20.

Can anyone help me find what is the mistake i have done?

Code:

var('s,z')
g1 = 12108.8236080100*s^4 + 3016.35528790190*s^3 + 10600.0709715245*s^2 + 1937.60970085071*s + 409.016662847740/s + 472.343751699259/s^2 + 28.3730874809756/s^3 + 24.0436698653890/s^4 + 3397.06167138687  
g2 = g1.subs(s=(z-1)/(z+1))
g2.full_simplify()

Output:

(31993.69841156735*z^20 - 158174.2276629893*z^19 + 216392.4500464178*z^18 + 280148.4057432631*z^17 - 1211263.434674058*z^16 + 1037191.771384268*z^15 + 1264180.797481716*z^14 - 3364714.4688927*z^13 + 1723475.12974153*z^12 + 2648901.578200325*z^11 - 4385755.889381289*z^10 + 1244061.427447394*z^9 + 2634639.643830222*z^8 - 2874359.710320266*z^7 + 417712.5402619956*z^6 + 1209501.453649961*z^5 - 917808.742510938*z^4 + 93647.83955663575*z^3 + 205222.817859467*z^2 - 116204.0691059264*z + 21210.98893340469)/(z^20 - 10.0*z^18 + 45.0*z^16 - 120.0*z^14 + 210.0*z^12 - 252.0*z^10 + 210.0*z^8 - 120.0*z^6 + 45.0*z^4 - 10.0*z^2 + 1.0)
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Comments

Note that if you ask for g2 you will see that the problem does not come from the substitution step. The problem comes from the simplification step with full_simplify.

slelievre gravatar imageslelievre ( 2015-02-18 11:25:54 -0500 )edit

2 answers

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answered 2015-02-18 11:01:29 -0500

updated 2015-02-18 11:04:18 -0500

The problem is that you use floating point numbers. For them the operation are unexact and lcm(p^2, p) is likely to be p^3 rather than being p^2 even with simple expressions

sage: p = 2.1*z^2 + 0.1
sage: f = (1/p + 1/p**2).full_simplify()
sage: f
(4.41*z^4 + 2.52*z^2 + 0.11)/(9.261000000000001*z^6 + 1.323*z^4 + 0.06300000000000001*z^2 + 0.001)
sage: (p^3).expand()
9.26100000000000*z^6 + 1.32300000000000*z^4 + 0.0630000000000000*z^2 + 0.00100000000000000

If you exact numbers like integers or rationals this is fine

sage: g1=12108*s^4 + 3016*s^3 + 10600*s^2 + 1937*s + 409/s + 472/s^2 + 28/s^3 + 24/s^4 + 3397
sage: g2=g1.subs(s=((z-1)/(z+1)))  
sage: g2.full_simplify()
(31991*z^8 - 158168*z^7 + 408320*z^6 - 668856*z^5 + 758902*z^4 - 603528*z^3 + 332472*z^2 - 116200*z + 21211)/(z^8 - 4*z^6 + 6*z^4 - 4*z^2 + 1)
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Comments

But is there any way to expand polynomials correctly with decimal coefficients?

kartheek gravatar imagekartheek ( 2015-02-19 06:38:49 -0500 )edit

What do you mean by decimal coefficients ? What you used are called floating point numbers and are (binary) approximations of real numbers.

vdelecroix gravatar imagevdelecroix ( 2015-02-19 12:58:35 -0500 )edit

One way is to use rationals if your decimals have only few digits, like 21/10 and 1/10 in your example. Floating point is inexact, rational is exact, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floatin...

rws gravatar imagerws ( 2015-02-20 03:38:44 -0500 )edit
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answered 2015-02-18 11:00:57 -0500

updated 2015-02-18 11:13:20 -0500

Here is a simpler example showing the problem (which comes from using floating-point entries).

sage: s, z = var('s z')
sage: f = s^2 + s + 1/s + 1/s^2 + 1.
sage: g = f.subs(s=(z-1)/(z+1))
sage: g.full_simplify()
(5.0*z^6 + 5.0*z^4 - 9.0*z^2 - 1.0)/(z^6 - 3.0*z^4 + 3.0*z^2 - 1.0)

By contrast, with integer entries:

sage: s, z = var('s z')
sage: f = s^2 + s + 1/s + 1/s^2 + 1 
sage: g = f.subs(s=(z-1)/(z+1))
sage: g = f.subs(s=(z-1)/(z+1))
sage: g.full_simplify()
(5*z^4 + 10*z^2 + 1)/(z^4 - 2*z^2 + 1)

So applying simplify_full in the first seems to introduce an extra factor (z^2-1) in the numerator and denominator.

Exercise: find out what simplify_full does, follow each step and figure out where things go wrong.

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Asked: 2015-02-18 10:12:25 -0500

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Last updated: Feb 18 '15