ASKSAGE: Sage Q&A Forum - RSS feedhttps://ask.sagemath.org/questions/Q&A Forum for SageenCopyright Sage, 2010. Some rights reserved under creative commons license.Fri, 19 Jan 2018 06:35:10 +0100Action of lattice automorphism group on discriminant grouphttps://ask.sagemath.org/question/40645/action-of-lattice-automorphism-group-on-discriminant-group/I have a lattice $L$ with automorphism group $G=Aut(L)$. The action of $G$ on $L$ should induce an action on the discriminant group $D={\tilde L}/L$ such that we have a group homomorphism $\phi: Aut(L) \rightarrow Aut(D)$. The kernel of this map will be a normal subgroup $N$ of $G$. I need to be able to compute the action of the quotient $G/N$ on $D$. In the actual example I am interested in $L$ has rank $20$ and is defined through its Gram Matrix. $L$ is an even lattice. A simpler model of this situation would be to take $L$ to be a root lattice, say the $A_2$ root lattice to be concrete, $Aut(L)$ is the dihedral group $D_6$ arising as the product of the $Z_2$ outer automorphism and the $S_3$ Weyl group of $A_2$. The dual lattice $\tilde L$ is the weight lattice of $A_2$ and the discriminant group ${\tilde L}/L$ is $Z_3$ with one non-trivial automorphism, taking $g \rightarrow g^{-1}$. In this simple case everything is computable by hand, but for the case I am interested in I only have $Aut(L)$ presented in terms of $20 \times 20$ matrix generators and computing by hand seems too difficult. Can anyone provide any hints on how to get sage to do this? I can compute $Aut(L)$ and $Aut(D)$ using sage, my problem is in figuring out how to determine $N$ and the action of the quotient $G/N$ on $D$.Tue, 16 Jan 2018 21:37:35 +0100https://ask.sagemath.org/question/40645/action-of-lattice-automorphism-group-on-discriminant-group/Comment by dan_fulea for <p>I have a lattice $L$ with automorphism group $G=Aut(L)$. The action of $G$ on $L$ should induce an action on the discriminant group $D={\tilde L}/L$ such that we have a group homomorphism $\phi: Aut(L) \rightarrow Aut(D)$. The kernel of this map will be a normal subgroup $N$ of $G$. I need to be able to compute the action of the quotient $G/N$ on $D$. In the actual example I am interested in $L$ has rank $20$ and is defined through its Gram Matrix. $L$ is an even lattice. A simpler model of this situation would be to take $L$ to be a root lattice, say the $A_2$ root lattice to be concrete, $Aut(L)$ is the dihedral group $D_6$ arising as the product of the $Z_2$ outer automorphism and the $S_3$ Weyl group of $A_2$. The dual lattice $\tilde L$ is the weight lattice of $A_2$ and the discriminant group ${\tilde L}/L$ is $Z_3$ with one non-trivial automorphism, taking $g \rightarrow g^{-1}$. In this simple case everything is computable by hand, but for the case I am interested in I only have $Aut(L)$ presented in terms of $20 \times 20$ matrix generators and computing by hand seems too difficult. Can anyone provide any hints on how to get sage to do this? I can compute $Aut(L)$ and $Aut(D)$ using sage, my problem is in figuring out how to determine $N$ and the action of the quotient $G/N$ on $D$.</p>
https://ask.sagemath.org/question/40645/action-of-lattice-automorphism-group-on-discriminant-group/?comment=40652#post-id-40652Please provide a concrete situation, where the involved objects are still "complicated" (at least not trivial). Two examples - one in a smaller dimension, one in a much bigger one - would be enough to get started for a potential helper...Wed, 17 Jan 2018 12:47:15 +0100https://ask.sagemath.org/question/40645/action-of-lattice-automorphism-group-on-discriminant-group/?comment=40652#post-id-40652Comment by jah for <p>I have a lattice $L$ with automorphism group $G=Aut(L)$. The action of $G$ on $L$ should induce an action on the discriminant group $D={\tilde L}/L$ such that we have a group homomorphism $\phi: Aut(L) \rightarrow Aut(D)$. The kernel of this map will be a normal subgroup $N$ of $G$. I need to be able to compute the action of the quotient $G/N$ on $D$. In the actual example I am interested in $L$ has rank $20$ and is defined through its Gram Matrix. $L$ is an even lattice. A simpler model of this situation would be to take $L$ to be a root lattice, say the $A_2$ root lattice to be concrete, $Aut(L)$ is the dihedral group $D_6$ arising as the product of the $Z_2$ outer automorphism and the $S_3$ Weyl group of $A_2$. The dual lattice $\tilde L$ is the weight lattice of $A_2$ and the discriminant group ${\tilde L}/L$ is $Z_3$ with one non-trivial automorphism, taking $g \rightarrow g^{-1}$. In this simple case everything is computable by hand, but for the case I am interested in I only have $Aut(L)$ presented in terms of $20 \times 20$ matrix generators and computing by hand seems too difficult. Can anyone provide any hints on how to get sage to do this? I can compute $Aut(L)$ and $Aut(D)$ using sage, my problem is in figuring out how to determine $N$ and the action of the quotient $G/N$ on $D$.</p>
https://ask.sagemath.org/question/40645/action-of-lattice-automorphism-group-on-discriminant-group/?comment=40686#post-id-40686I added additional details and a smaller dimensional example of the general question. I don't think entering the 20x20 gram matrix of the lattice would be particularly helpful to anyone. p.s. sorry for bad LaTeX but for some reason $L^*$ didn't work properly.Fri, 19 Jan 2018 00:05:43 +0100https://ask.sagemath.org/question/40645/action-of-lattice-automorphism-group-on-discriminant-group/?comment=40686#post-id-40686Comment by slelievre for <p>I have a lattice $L$ with automorphism group $G=Aut(L)$. The action of $G$ on $L$ should induce an action on the discriminant group $D={\tilde L}/L$ such that we have a group homomorphism $\phi: Aut(L) \rightarrow Aut(D)$. The kernel of this map will be a normal subgroup $N$ of $G$. I need to be able to compute the action of the quotient $G/N$ on $D$. In the actual example I am interested in $L$ has rank $20$ and is defined through its Gram Matrix. $L$ is an even lattice. A simpler model of this situation would be to take $L$ to be a root lattice, say the $A_2$ root lattice to be concrete, $Aut(L)$ is the dihedral group $D_6$ arising as the product of the $Z_2$ outer automorphism and the $S_3$ Weyl group of $A_2$. The dual lattice $\tilde L$ is the weight lattice of $A_2$ and the discriminant group ${\tilde L}/L$ is $Z_3$ with one non-trivial automorphism, taking $g \rightarrow g^{-1}$. In this simple case everything is computable by hand, but for the case I am interested in I only have $Aut(L)$ presented in terms of $20 \times 20$ matrix generators and computing by hand seems too difficult. Can anyone provide any hints on how to get sage to do this? I can compute $Aut(L)$ and $Aut(D)$ using sage, my problem is in figuring out how to determine $N$ and the action of the quotient $G/N$ on $D$.</p>
https://ask.sagemath.org/question/40645/action-of-lattice-automorphism-group-on-discriminant-group/?comment=40688#post-id-40688@jah -- actually, providing an actual explicit example, that people can copy-paste into
a Sage session to get started working on your question, is usually an enormous help.Fri, 19 Jan 2018 06:35:10 +0100https://ask.sagemath.org/question/40645/action-of-lattice-automorphism-group-on-discriminant-group/?comment=40688#post-id-40688